Screen capture concerns

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  • Updated 10 months ago
I am still concerned about the new screen capture that's coming.
I have email support a few times but the below issues still don't seem to be addressed and I want to know what Covenant Eyes feel about this....

Scrolling through Facebook feeds can sometimes reveal an image containing nudity that someone else has posted. If screen capture snaps this it can be misconstrued to my partner as me looking at these images?

The same can be said for other apps whereby you could stumble across a 'meme'or image and screen capture can snap this and send it.

Covenant Eyes has always been there to prevent people from willingly accessing sites they shouldn't be and it's worked. But the above concerns are not this, they aren't the intentions.
What's worse is that if there is any misrepresenting by the screen capture that's sent to your partner, this could cause more harm than good. You should understand that some couples could be very fragile, all it would take is some confusion around this to break someone.

The other concern is how my private info, childrens photos, and other privacy that has nothing to do with Covenant Eyes can be seen.

Unless covenant eyes has a satisfactory answer to how this is all dealt with then I fear we will be moving to another Christian accountability service.
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M

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Posted 10 months ago

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Zach

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Since you're asking, I have a few thoughts.

1. It's been made clear to me that the CE software only really works in the context of community. Therefore, if porn was accessed in an accidental way on my device (Facebook, memes, etc.), it should be easily cleared up via a follow-up conversation with my accountability partner.

2. As far as privacy concerns, the blurring effect from my experience does a great job providing the 'gist' of a screenshot without enough clarity to raise privacy concerns.
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M

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Hi,
See my detailed response to Annelise.
However, to address point 1....Why should a husband and wife have to keep clearing things up when there would be no need? You are presuming every couple may be ok with this, e.g....a wife may be at breaking point, all she needs is to see such things that her husband is not accountable for, thanks to covenant eyes. If bit meant that she has to panicky for a few hours until they chat, why should she have to do that? This can actually fuel discontent rather than the peace knowing any intention is prevented which is better.
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Annelise, Official Rep

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Hello M,

Thank you for your post and sharing your concerns. I would like to preface my response with that the current development of our Screen Accountability service is not meant supersede conversation and communication between a user and their Accountability Partner nor an attempt at being able to distinguish a user's intent. It's simply new technology meant to support our overall mission in an ever changing technological world. 

With your specific example I can certainly see how coming across a suggestive image within a Facebook news feed would be cause for concern. You weren't expecting it to be there or seeking it out. It's kind of the risk we put ourselves at with these social media sites. We have no control over what our friends will post. 

With that being said, our Screen Accountability technology was designed to capture a screenshot from a user's device every minute, roughly. The chance of the scenario you mentioned happening would be low. Furthermore the accidental clicking on an image or stumbling across an explicit photo is no different than the same situation happening with our current software. If you click on a link that leads to an suggestive or explicit website the Covenant Eyes URL reporting is still recording it and putting it on the report, even if you immediately close out of it. The only difference is a screenshot being reported versus a URL.

The intention of the user is something that no technology will ever be able to tell which is why a good Accountability Partner who is patient, consistent, unbiased, empathetic, and intentional along with strong communication is key. 

Our reports whether they contain screenshots or URLs are simply a tool at helping a user maintain accountability online or help an individual overcome a pornography addiction. Only the user knows their true intention and any accountability software is there to simply aide and support a user who has consciously made the decision to be held accountable. 

In response to your secondary concern about private information being seen, we do have two videos that I believe thoroughly explain our three level blurring technology that happens directly on your device to ensure no un-blurred images are available on our server.
 
The video for our Live Event that took place on February 4th can be found here: https://www.covenanteyes.com/screen-accountability-coming-soon/#
Our Live Event does include a segment showing our blurring technology on a variety of screenshots captured by our software. This segment can be found around the 17 minute mark.

A video with our CEO and VP of Customer Service addressing privacy concerns can be found here: https://vimeo.com/313003273
 
I hope this response helps to alleviate any concerns and please feel free to contact us with any further questions you may have. 

Best regards,
Annelise
(Edited)
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M

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Annelise,
Thank you for the detailed response.
Here is why your justification for my primary concern is not acceptable to me.

You state "our Screen Accountability service is not meant supersede conversation and communication between a user and their Accountability Partner nor an attempt at being able to distinguish a user's intent."

You are suggesting that having to talk about the awful coming across an explicit image is a good thing. Why? You are assuming couples don't mind having to address this subject. The prevention of the intention is better than addressing it, especially when it would be a misinterpretation by Covenant Eyes capturing an image that was never looked for.
Saying its a low risk it's captured as it's every minute ....there should be no risk.

You state "the accidental clicking on an image or stumbling across an explicit photo is no different than the same situation happening with our current software. If you click on a link that leads to an suggestive or explicit website the Covenant Eyes URL reporting is still recording it and putting it on the report, even if you immediately close out of it. The only difference is a screenshot being reported versus a URL."

That is just not true. I am not dumb enough to click on links I don't either know or intend to view. That is a will on my part. Whereas coming across an image on a news feed, or that a friend posts is something I have not generated and there is no intention from me. How can you say it is the same thing??

You state "The intention of the user is something that no technology will ever be able to tell which is why a good Accountability Partner who is patient, consistent, unbiased, empathetic, and intentional along with strong communication is key. "

To the contrary, I think it's fairly obvious if you type in an internet search or click on a known porn site. Covenant Eyes already does a good job of preventing this intention.

But this is the most concerning point you have made.....to suggest what an accountability partner should be like is pretty disgraceful. How do you presume how partners should be? Let's say your accountability partner is your wife. She has been through a lot, to the point where one thing could push her over the edge. The blast thing she needs to see is an image which was not the fault of her husband but Covenant Eyes snap shot it. She needs protecting from this not to have to 'talk' about it through her tears until she gets the relief that it was nothing?
How dare you think that it's ok. You are supposed to be there to help but it's as though you think you know the relationships of couples?

I'm sorry but for me this is dangerous to presume every person is happy to have to keep justifying images not being there's, and that wives need to see that regardless
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Chance

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So I had my wife read what I wrote and she did say it came across as somewhat "cold", and I do agree with her. I do apologize for coming across that way, and I do agree my last 4 "suggestions" were unhelpful. I think I could have written what I wrote a lot better and more succinctly. 

I don't really have an issue with your feedback in itself. For a lot of people, CE works exactly as is, and you definitely raise valid points. For various reasons, I think Screen Accountability is the way to go but I can see your point of view too.  My issue was the way you represented your feedback, using terms like "how dare you", and "disgraceful", and "unacceptable". To me, these come across as somewhat emotionally charged terms and rhetoric that I don't think are helpful either. I stand by my comments in that I felt like you were scolding them. That being said, was it my place to chime in, in response? I really don't know. Maybe not the way I did. I think Zach's response was a little bit better. I just know that people who work in customer service are limited in how they respond. I don't have that limit, but I am aware I still need to respond in love.
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M

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When it comes to people's lives and relationships that could be affected by the dangers of screen capture for all the reasons I've already gone into.....then yes, i think being emotional about it is acceptable.
I cannot re-iterate enough that this is not just a software discussion, this is mostly about people's marriages. Covenant Eyes profess to of set this company up to protect relationships. This is the first and foremost priority.
I think you are not thinking at all of any consequences this might have on others just because it might suit you. Like CE, I believe it's an irresponsible view to over look risks, or call them low risk like people are collateral
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Chance

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"then yes, i think being emotional about it is acceptable. "

On the contrary, I think outrage is an overrated emotion. People don't respond well to emotional language. This is pretty much the state of our political climate.  

"I think you are not thinking at all of any consequences this might have on others just because it might suit you."

And I don't think you are thinking at all of any consequences the current software may have on users. With things as they are, it is actually easier to keep things under the radar. There are a lot of ways, especially on mobile, for people to seek things out without being flagged. You're thinking of all these scenarios where the new CE won't work, but not thinking about, or at least not talking about, where the old CE falls short. 

"Covenant Eyes profess to of set this company up to protect relationships. This is the first and foremost priority. "  

CE has to do what they believe is best for the largest number of people. It's unrealistic for CE to try to make 100% of the people 100% happy, but not expect any of the customers to make any changes themselves. You're convinced CE is going to ruin someone's marriage, where I listed different options someone could do to work around this, but you think it's unrealistic for anyone to change anything at all. But the thing is... it IS someone's marriage. It's not unrealistic for someone to make changes for the sake of their marriage. Ultimately, CE is not responsible for someone's marriage, we are. Your point is, maybe people didn't have to make changes before, and they do now. Well, maybe. But maybe people had to make changes with the old software too. There are probably many people who would not have gotten a mobile device in the past (I literally know someone like this), but maybe he can now because of the more thorough accountability.

The thing is, I've been in the scenario you mentioned. I told my wife I had been addicted to porn over the last decade, and she was crushed. If screen accountability was around back then I think it would have helped even more. There was a couple of times where I did some "under the radar" stuff early on and SA would have caught it (I still confessed to my wife about it).  There would have been the possibility of an image showing up in my reports, and if that was an issue, we would have done one of the things I mentioned in this thread. 
(Edited)
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Chance

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""Covenant Eyes profess to of set this company up to protect relationships. This is the first and foremost priority. " 

I think you are confusing "protecting relationships" with "not getting your wife upset".

In the case you mention, where a questionable image could show up on your screen and possibly your report, you worry about that one image could ruin a relationship. Let's go the other direction - what if it's not one image but a bunch of images, and that person is looking at a bunch of different images on a normally "safe" site, like Facebook? Screen accountability, in my view, does a better job of handling the latter situation. It's not really "helping the relationship" if someone is able to view a bunch of questionable images under the radar, unless your view of "helping the relationship" is your wife not getting upset at you.

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M

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Ok, I don't think it's worth us continuing this. You seem bent on dissecting all of viewpoints like it offends you on behalf of covenant eyes. Some of which you're misunderstanding through this and going off on one. You seem quite qualified on everyone else's relationship and how they should be.
I have an opinion, which is shared by many. I've detailed the dangers and made my points. I stand by the effectiveness of the current CE for my life (clearly not so effective for yours). I don't have the need to have to convince you or anyone else who is happy to accept the changes.
All the best.
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Tom Park

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Does the screen capture tell you how long you have lingered on that image? I am afraid that a screen capture will occur as I am quickly trying to avoid an inappropriate image for me. Even swimsuits ads are something that can be on a benign web page but I would hate for my wife to be triggered and think that I am staring at those type of pictures. It is helpful for her to know that I left the picture in a second as opposed to minutes. Thank you.
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M

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That's precisely one of the concerns I am trying to point out here, the misinterpretation of this. I don't know the answer to this as every time I express my concern to Covenant Eyes I don't get any helpful info back. Just mostly about what your partner should be like.
Your point is interesting and would certainly go someway to alleviating a concern if there was info on how long that image was viewable.
However, that is still not enough for me. I seem to alone with the view that couples may not want to have to discuss images to put away any doubt, fear, hurt on a regular basis just because CE is snapping away, why should couples even have to deal with that unnecessarily?
For me prevention is there, it stops me from giving it a thought and my life is so much better for it. To now have to justify any misinterpretation to make sure my wife is ok is unhealthy.
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Tom Park

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Might I suggest an idea to CE that screenshots be taken only when someone has been viewing a particular site for a while. Eg for greater than 1 minute. Perhaps covenant eyes can only upload the screenshots that are duplicates since they are being taken every minute or so. That would be able to give and estimate to how long one was viewing an image.
(Edited)